VIDEO: News about outdoor tables/chairs

[VentnorMod]

News report from NBC -40 about the proposed ordinance dealing with restaurants using outdoor tables on sidewalks.

Click link to get to the video icon

http://www.nbc40.net/view_story.php?id=7173

RESTAURANT OWNERS STAND UP TO SEATING REGULATIONS
Phaedra Laird ( plaird@nbc40.net ) - 10/15/08 04:57 pm
Last Updated - 10/15/08 05:53 pm

VENTNOR--Restaurant owners in Ventnor aren't taking a new proposal regulating outdoor seating sitting down. Officials say the new ordinance is necessary to keep the public safe, but merchants fear it will put their businesses in danger.

"Why take away a good thing?" That's what many restaurant owners in Ventnor are wondering after learning about a new proposal that would regulate their outdoor seating. "People like sitting outside," said Cheryl Venezia, owner of Annette's, "it's beautiful today, why sit inside?"

"It's a plus, absolutely a plus," said Arlene Love over a bowl of oatmeal, "we would be outside today if there were tables out there." But regulars at Annette's are eating inside after the new restrictions have the owner 86-ing her outdoor tables. "Every night we have to put our tables in," said Venezia, "I mean, I have a small restaurant, where am I going to put my tables and chairs every night? You know, it's just become a hassle."

"I can't just give away my sidewalks." The mayor says the proposed ordinance is all about public safety and is in response to multiple complaints by residents. "Mostly they cannot get past the buildings," said Ventnor Mayor, Theresa Kelly, "you know, they can't walk on the sidewalk, they have to go out in the street, so it becomes a safety issue."

"I do see their point, but there has to be some type of reasoning," said Maria Gatta, owner of the Red Room Café.
Under the proposal, outdoor seating will still be allowed, but the tables have to be at least seven feet away from the curb.

"We want to work with our businesses," said the mayor, "we're not trying to hurt them in anyway."

But, restaurant owners say less outdoor seating means less revenue. "It will affect my business profit extremely, at least 30%, especially in the summertime," said Gatta.

With tough economic times, restaurant owners say strict regulations won't help. Both sides of the issue hope the matter can be resolved in a way that leaves everyone happy.

The ordinance will be introduced during tomorrow night's city commissioners meeting at 7PM. The final reading and vote will happen November 20th.

[Old Timer]

I'm glad to see the Mayor is taking some action to fix this problem. I believe the original concept of allowing seating outdoors that was established several years ago was done with good intent. The problem comes in when family's pushing a stroller or handicapped people in wheelchairs can't go past a public sidewalk. The Mayor is right in trying to reach a solution that still allows a business to have outdoor seating while keeping the sidewalk clear. The 7 foot buffer from the curb line as proposed should work. Stick to your guns on this Mayor Kelly, the public sidewalk is there for the public to use.
Good job!

[Boatcapt]

A through review is needed before the outdoor table/chair ordinance is passed. What are the ADA requirements? Seven feet might be overkill. Have the city engineer and the administration done enough review? A restaurateur could and would challenge an ordinance that conflicts with the ADA guidelines.
We've got a good attraction, customers like it, the merchants do more business, let's not kill it with overregulation.

[Walk Soft]

The ADA specifications are very lose on the setbacks and the minimum is only 36 inches. They are a vague though and written that way for a reason. They want it that way so each city's can deal with each situation individually. That means that every city can increase the 36 inch minimum as they see fit. The ADA would only intervene if the minimum isn't met.

36 inches driving a wheel chair is like going threw when only the 1 door is opened going threw into the Court room, on the edge of the curb looking off though is quite thrilling 1 could imagine.

[Old Timer]

I'm not sure ADA requirements apply to public sidewalks but I could be wrong. Keep in mind the 7 foot mark starts at the curb. In some areas there are trees, parking meters, trash cans etc that take up about 3-4 feet of that 7 feet. If anything it might not leave enough room. I'm sure the City had taken measurements (at least I hope they did) of the distance between the curb and the involved businesses so they can show that the seven foot mark still leaves adequate area to make everyone happy. I'm willing to give the elected officials and their professionals the benefit of the doubt that they are trying to make everyone happy on this subject, after all they could have just banned the outdoor seating

[Boatcapt]

I'm sure that everyone's not going to be happy whatever the decision is. IMHO 7 feet is too restrictive. Surely, none of us want our sidewalks loaded with tables and chairs, like some of our fine merchants have done. As long as there is an unimpeded walkway, it should be just fine. That space, of course being wide enough for a baby carriage or a wheel chair. No, we surely don't want any pedestrians to have to walk in the street to get around any tables and chairs.
Some of our eating places have limited indoor space and those extra tables outside sure helps their business.
BTW, I haven't noticed too many sidewalk cafes in marvelous Margate.

[VentnorMod]

The Downbeach Current is linked below, with the ordinance about sidewalk tables placed as front page news.

http://shorenewstoday.com/db/

[JerseyJoe]

Originally Posted by Boatcapt

I'm sure that everyone's not going to be happy whatever the decision is. IMHO 7 feet is too restrictive. Surely, none of us want our sidewalks loaded with tables and chairs, like some of our fine merchants have done. As long as there is an unimpeded walkway, it should be just fine. That space, of course being wide enough for a baby carriage or a wheel chair. No, we surely don't want any pedestrians to have to walk in the street to get around any tables and chairs.
Some of our eating places have limited indoor space and those extra tables outside sure helps their business.
BTW, I haven't noticed too many sidewalk cafes in marvelous Margate.

I think 7 feet is better than 5 becuz some of these places have customers waiting for seats who are taking up sidewalk space too. Its not just the tables and chairs but people standing beyond them and blocking off entire sidewalks. I have had to go out into the street to get around people at least a couple times this summer.

[LouJahn]

Originally Posted by Walk Soft

The ADA specifications are very lose on the setbacks and the minimum is only 36 inches. They are a vague though and written that way for a reason. They want it that way so each city's can deal with each situation individually. That means that every city can increase the 36 inch minimum as they see fit. The ADA would only intervene if the minimum isn't met.

36 inches driving a wheel chair is like going threw when only the 1 door is opened going threw into the Court room, on the edge of the curb looking off though is quite thrilling 1 could imagine.

Well you also need the space for car doors to open or for the tree plantings ALONG with the 36 inches. The seven foot propoal sounds like a fair and safe approach for everyone. Also, the 36 inch is an absolute minimum, how does someone walking with them pass down the sidewalk? Why to owners feel single file is a correct solution?

Some of the comments would show the restaurant owners feel they NOW OWN the sidewalk space they were allowed to use for business convenience; however, once they go beyond the "public's convenience" they need to be brought back to reality.

Hope the Commissioners step up to actually control the situation!

[JustaPirate]

car doors and trees are good points. they take away from just a 3 or 4 foot space if it measures from curb.